PPA AGM: 2015-09-30

[velomonatiCT]

lcycling tends to rub people up the wrong way but he does ask good questions.

 

We see road cycling struggling with less events every year and no proper league and on the flipside PPA getting financially stronger & moving into shiny new offices.

 

I think it is worth asking whether money is being spent correctly and if priorities are right,

 

We have the flagship event going from strength to strength but the rest of the road events seemingly declining, it worries me a bit that the success of the Argus is not feeding into the rest of the roadie calendar.

 

very well put together reply

I agree completely

[raptor-22]

Maybe call the ppa office and ask what they're doing about road events. When I last called the situation was carefully explained. That situation has already been articulated here.

Criterium type events can be arranged but the turn out is low, too low for ppa to bother. That type of event is better organised by clubs and csa since it appeals more to their members.

Ppa road events cater to people interested and solely interested in the flag ship event, ctct.

 

Like I said perhaps a fresh perspective is needed but what I hear of the outcomes is that a subcommittee has been formed to look at options for road.

 

Problem is everytime people with a bone to pick with ppa pipes up they start talking coup. That is not going to endear you to anyone. I called out Icycling because going back through his ppa posts, they all come off an intensely negative base. All relate to money, how much he /she's contributed to ppa (therefore we must give thanks) and how much ppa should do for road cycling when racing is not it's mandate.

 

If we take a step back and look at the world for what it is, without the ctct there would be no cycling culture in cape town. It is the link pin building a cycling culture.

 

It's natural to ask why can't ppa do more given its current resources but any good project manager and strategist will tell you then when you are limited in terms of what you can do build resources that enable you to build stronger products when the market is ready. Right now the cycling world in cape town isin a holding pattern do to roadworks and a burned down mountain.

 

Patience

[Icycling]

All people like Icycling see is a problem and who to blame. Beyond that they are unwilling to delve deeper into the problem. It's easier to grandstand on a forum than too deliver.

Possibly it will come to you (hide on the hub with no real name) as shock when I tell you I have spent 18 years on the PPA EXCO between 1994(I Think) and 2015. On two occasions I choose not to stand, following years I choose to stand and was re-elected, but have never been voted off the PPA committee.

 

I think I probably have as good as an idea on how things work at PPA than anyone else including current EXCO members. I have a very good idea on how difficult it may seem to organize road event, but when LBL decided too (guess who planted the seeded in the CEO mind / yup myself at SA master champs in Oudtshoon April 2013), they did a great job. Likewise WPCA put 12 road events over the past 6 months. Ultimately where there is a will there is a way. EXCO need leadership to drive cycling (all forms) forward, not to loose what they had - I see this on the road side of thing - unfortunately this leadership takes a strong minded people to ensure the staff are doing there best to make things happen for cycling. The easy option is to do as little as possible and just bank the cash.

 

I think I headed / was part of the league sub committee for about 10 years. Stood on Giro del Capo sub committee for many years and possibly was the only reason why the last 2 Giro happened. Yup the likes of Chris Froome, a whole lot of Aussie and even the Kazakhstan came to the Giro and then went on to be great TDF riders. An international development racing event owned by PPA in our own backyard and the number of supporter it attracted (PPA member included) was large. Any of you guys remember the crowds on Signal Hill for the TT or in front of the Good hope center for the crit? Why was this event dropped - it was felt by EXCO (excluding myself and 1 or 2 others) it would be best investing the money in a Unit trust account instead of the sport of cycling. So now PPA have a large bank balance - Great, but the sport (road) has less events - Not Great!

 

I have been part of the deliverance over several years RAPTOR-22. Rob Booth - yes the guy who headed the stay wider of the rider PPA champaign for 2014/15, possibly the most successful champaign PPA or was that just Rob Booth achieved this year. Mr Booth did not receive enough vote to stay on the committee - why because he is an action man, get things done, does not accept NO for an answer when the cause is right? Or was their just a "rent a crowd" voting who did not even stay to hear the results. For those who were at the AGM Mr Booth was the EXCO member willing to challenge the the treasures report on running a balanced budget. At Mr Booths request I was willing to make my grudge purchase on renewing my 33 year old PPA membership to stand again on this EXCO to get things done. RAPTOR-22 what have you done or shown willingness to do? People in glass house should not throw stones!

 

At any rate now that I am in Manchester I have some boards to go ride on and will rather focus on World Master track champs instead of PPA. I suppose I am very fortunate I don't need PPA to organize races I can afford (time, money and ability etc) to go race in the world where races are been hold.Last month it was road in Mauritius this month Manchester Uk. It is a huge pity that PPA with it resources does not want to help their young up and coming members who are competitive on the road by putting on events that I was fortunate to be able to race in. Yet they sound surprised / concerned at the AGM that the avg age of Cycle Tour riders is over 40! But still disregard the vote of the late arrivals from Killarney who were predominately between 18 and 30 years of age. Talk about endearing yourself to the youth!

Edited October 2, 2015 by Icycling

[Mntboy]

Maybe call the ppa office and ask what they're doing about road events. When I last called the situation was carefully explained. That situation has already been articulated here.

Criterium type events can be arranged but the turn out is low, too low for ppa to bother. That type of event is better organised by clubs and csa since it appeals more to their members.

Ppa road events cater to people interested and solely interested in the flag ship event, ctct.

 

Like I said perhaps a fresh perspective is needed but what I hear of the outcomes is that a subcommittee has been formed to look at options for road.

 

Problem is everytime people with a bone to pick with ppa pipes up they start talking coup. That is not going to endear you to anyone. I called out Icycling because going back through his ppa posts, they all come off an intensely negative base. All relate to money, how much he /she's contributed to ppa (therefore we must give thanks) and how much ppa should do for road cycling when racing is not it's mandate.

 

If we take a step back and look at the world for what it is, without the ctct there would be no cycling culture in cape town. It is the link pin building a cycling culture.

 

It's natural to ask why can't ppa do more given its current resources but any good project manager and strategist will tell you then when you are limited in terms of what you can do build resources that enable you to build stronger products when the market is ready. Right now the cycling world in cape town isin a holding pattern do to roadworks and a burned down mountain.

 

Patience

Clearly the Argus/CTCT is the lynch pin on which the road season in the cape hangs but that's not being contested here. If the PPA is not mandated concerning road racing why are then involved with the CTCT? Why then did they previously have a racing league and organize the Giro del Capo? Surely they are being mandated to organize or be involved with a racing league due to the request for one? Or has this escaped your notice?

 

As for comments concerning Icycling, I find his posts are not negative but he's frustrated imho. Frustrated that people who should be looking out for cycling's best interest isn't necessarily doing so. Frustrated by the apathy this causes and frustrated because he feels that his views are being overlooked in favour of other viewpoints. He has had his hands in the muck and has tried to make cycling a better sport through his participation in the administration of previous PPA exco's, have you?

[Mntboy]

Possibly it will come to you (hide on the hub with no real name) as shock when I tell you I have spent 18 years on the PPA EXCO between 1994(I Think) and 2015. On two occasions I choose not to stand, following years I choose to stand and was re-elected, but have never been voted off the PPA committee.

 

I think I probably have as good as an idea on how things work at PPA than anyone else including current EXCO members. I have a very good idea on how difficult it may seem to organize road event, but when LBL decided too (guess who planted the seeded in the CEO mind / yup myself at SA master champs in Oudtshoon April 2013), they did a great job. Likewise WPCA put 12 road events over the past 6 months. Ultimately where there is a will there is a way. EXCO need leadership to drive cycling (all forms) forward, not to loose what they had - I see this on the road side of thing - unfortunately this leadership takes a strong minded people to ensure the staff are doing there best to make things happen for cycling. The easy option is to do as little as possible and just bank the cash.

 

I think I headed / was part of the league sub committee for about 10 years. Stood on Giro del Capo sub committee for many years and possibly was the only reason why the last 2 Giro happened. Yup the likes of Chris Froome, a whole lot of Aussie and even the Kazakhstan came to the Giro and then went on to be great TDF riders. An international development racing event owned by PPA in our own backyard and the number of supporter it attracted (PPA member included) was large. Any of you guys remember the crowds on Signal Hill for the TT or in front of the Good hope center for the crit? Why was this event dropped - it was felt by EXCO (excluding myself and 1 or 2 others) it would be best investing the money in a Unit trust account instead of the sport of cycling. So now PPA have a large bank balance - Great, but the sport (road) has less events - Not Great!

 

I have been part of the deliverance over several years RAPTOR-22. Rob Booth - yes the guy who headed the stay wider of the rider PPA champaign for 2014/15, possibly the most successful champaign PPA or was that just Rob Booth achieved this year. Mr Booth did not receive enough vote to stay on the committee - why because he is an action man, get things done, does not accept NO for an answer when the cause is right? Or was their just a "rent a crowd" voting who did not even stay to hear the results. For those who were at the AGM Mr Booth was the EXCO member willing to challenge the the treasures report on running a balanced budget. At Mr Booths request I was willing to make my grudge purchase on renewing my 33 year old PPA membership to stand again on this EXCO to get things done. RAPTOR-22 what have you done or shown willingness to do? People in glass house should not throw stones!

 

At any rate now that I am in Manchester I have some boards to go ride on and will rather focus on World Master track champs instead of PPA. I suppose I am very fortunate I don't need PPA to organize races I can afford (time, money and ability etc) to go race in the world where races are been hold.Last month it was road in Mauritius this month Manchester Uk. It is a huge pity that PPA with it resources does not want to help their young up and coming members who are competitive on the road by putting on events that I was fortunate to be able to race in. Yet they sound surprised / concerned at the AGM that the avg age of Cycle Tour riders is over 40! But still disregard the vote of the late arrivals from Killarney who were predominately between 18 and 30 years of age. Talk about endearing yourself to the youth!

I have empathy for your frustrations. Hopefully the PPA's new subcommittee on racing will appropriately address the issue.

[raptor-22]

Since your pal is frustrated (yet not negative) what has he done for cycling lately. (since he is so willing to keep telling how great he was in the past).

Edited October 2, 2015 by raptor-22

[Icycling]

Since your pal is frustrated (yet not negative) what has he done for cycling lately. (since he is so willing to keep telling how great he was in the past).

What have you done for cycling this year Raptor-22?

 

Mine to date for 2015 have been the easiest I.e. Only donating "money"!

 

R10 500 split equally in the 1st half of the year between WPCA Road - 12 events, track the Jean Nel memorial and wed Killarney.

 

R4000 to wed night Killarney about 3 weeks back. I for many years gave my PPA honoraria to Killarney - I even ask PPA years back on behalf of Wed night Killarney if they would consider offering some financial support - does not take much to guess that answer of flat refusal!

 

3 return tickets to riders in the Junior and U23 cat to Europe. The Junior I don't believe I have ever met officially and does not come from the Cape. The one U23 who was part of the MTN feeder team is currently been given the opportunity to ride for MTN Q main team. Been a landlord I think he was given this opportunity because of the 3P normally use in property. If he was not already in Europe I am not sure if he would have been given the opportunity. Unfortunately the 3rd rider also part of MTN feeder team had a bad accident in the 1st 2 weeks of racing in Belgium.

 

I personally see money / opportunities the easiest thing to give to deserving event / individuals. Naturally as an individual there is a limit one can just donate, but I try and do my bit for the sport I have a passion for.

 

I don't normally advertise my donations - as they are meant to be just that donations!

[(Deon)]

What have you done for cycling this year Raptor-22?

 

Mine to date for 2015 have been the easiest I.e. Only donating "money"!

 

R10 500 split equally in the 1st half of the year between WPCA Road - 12 events, track the Jean Nel memorial and wed Killarney.

 

R4000 to wed night Killarney about 3 weeks back. I for many years gave my PPA honoraria to Killarney - I even ask PPA years back on behalf of Wed night Killarney if they would consider offering some financial support - does not take much to guess that answer of flat refusal!

 

3 return tickets to riders in the Junior and U23 cat to Europe. The Junior I don't believe I have ever met officially and does not come from the Cape. The one U23 who was part of the MTN feeder team is currently been given the opportunity to ride for MTN Q main team. Been a landlord I think he was given this opportunity because of the 3P normally use in property. If he was not already in Europe I am not sure if he would have been given the opportunity. Unfortunately the 3rd rider also part of MTN feeder team had a bad accident in the 1st 2 weeks of racing in Belgium.

 

I personally see money / opportunities the easiest thing to give to deserving event / individuals. Naturally as an individual there is a limit one can just donate, but I try and do my bit for the sport I have a passion for.

 

I don't normally advertise my donations - as they are meant to be just that donations!

..and now we wait for the response. He is a very busy man but I'm sure if given half the chance would snap up the opportunity to assist in a worthy cause.

 

Font choices are limited but I found this very nice one called... Comic Sans

Edited October 2, 2015 by (Deon)

[Mntboy]

Since your pal is frustrated (yet not negative) what has he done for cycling lately. (since he is so willing to keep telling how great he was in the past).

Icycling and I have yet to meet hence we could not be described as being friends.

 

Maybe instead of having a snarky attitude you'd like to respond to my questions in my previous response to you in adult manner?

[Shebeen]

Ranting ... eish!

 

But back to the AGM. I was there. It was interesting. Clearly the elephant in the room that nobody quite knows how to deal with, is the proceeds from the Cycle Tour. This is about R12m per year. Half goes to Rotary who's mandate is to make it available to the needy. The other half, R6m odd, goes to the PPA, who's mandate is to spend it on cycling.

 

Before we start arguing about the width of one's bicycle tyres, we need to step back and appreciate where this windfall actually comes from. The Cycle Tour closes off one of the most pristine cycling routes in the world, pavement to pavement, 110km long, for an entire day. The attraction of riding this route is enough to entice 35000 cyclists to pay R470 each to ride it, year after year. On top of this, sponsors are happy to contribute lots more to participate in the celebration.

 

But the real cost of the event has got nothing to do with cycling. On that day the entire peninsular from Cape Town to Cape Point is closed down. Thousands of businesses and many hundreds of thousands of residents are effected. Entire towns are closed off to the rest of the world. Some residents cannot get their cars into or out of their property for the best part of 24 hours. These folk get no compensation at all. If we had to pay the real cost for the use of this route, it would cost a LOT more to ride.

 

So how do we cyclists get away with this, year after year? Fortunately the Cycle Tour is seen as a "Good Thing" by the general public. The Cycle Tour Trust (which has very close ties to the PPA) has perfected the management of this event. It is a huge success. Everybody loves a winner, including most of the population of the Peninsular. Good PR and a generous financial surplus that get puts to "good use" is part of the formula.

 

Which leads us back to the windfall. This has to be seen to be used in a manner which meets the approval of those who accommodate us every March. The PPA has inherited this task. They cannot use it to feed the hungry or repair shacks after a fire - that is in Rotary's mandate. PPA's mandate is to spend their tranche on CYCLING. I suspect that a review of past projects that PPA has sponsored would show that they have been effective. Ones I can think of - like the boardwalk in Lower Tokai - are hugely successful (I believe PPA contributed towards this). But the money is coming in faster than it is going out. It has to be utilized, on cycling, in a manner which can be seen to be "good".

 

Personally, the idea of giving away money does not come naturally to me...

 

I suspect being good at organizing an event like the Cycle Tour does not predispose one to being a good philanthropist. Getting a full time CEO on board seems like a excellent idea. At least projects no longer have to rely on "available volunteer time" to make progress. I hope some of those voices in the room last night can provide the inspiration, energy and guidance to complete this mandate.

 

Before you get too carried away with dreams, R6m does not actually go very far once you start spending it. If you put a team of 20 riders on cycles, kit them out and send them on an international tour, you could spend a quarter of it. (That's without paying for the coach).

 

But back to the ranting. Nobody wants to see their money spent on anybody with a negative attitude...

totally disagree, argus is one of ct signature events. Sure there is some disrupting, but it's once a year on a Sunday and those residents have learnt to embrace the event after 40 years (in general).

 

Did you know more gautengers ride the argus than locals? That brings money to the economy. I could go on,but argus /ctct has direct benefit to the city. Indirect benefit is massive

[i24]

totally disagree, argus is one of ct signature events. Sure there is some disrupting, but it's once a year on a Sunday and those residents have learnt to embrace the event after 40 years (in general).

 

Well if we can make R12m by organising one Cycle Tour a year, then why not put on a 2nd one in the year, or maybe even one a month?

[Icycling]

Well if we can make R12m by organising one Cycle Tour a year, then why not put on a 2nd one in the year, or maybe even one a month?

I would really like to agree with you here, but ultimately even I know Xmas only comes once a year. The Cycle Tour is like Xmas for cyclist. Trust you will find the answer to your question by the statement

[Shebeen]

I would really like to agree with you here, but ultimately even I know Xmas only comes once a year. The Cycle Tour is like Xmas for cyclist. Trust you will find the answer to your question by the statement

couldn't have put it better myself. Not really a roadie, but am totally behind your drive to get ppa to take it seriously again.

[Icycling]

 

Seems like raptor-22 cannot answer questions put to him. Reminds me how the AGM went when questions by members went unanswered by the chairman.

 

I have noticed how many of the guys who arrived late at AGM (and those who I massaged during the meeting saying they would arrived too late), still made the effort to go and do the event in Oudshoon this past weekend. My point here is PAA not looking after there die hard supporters by excluding them from voting, get the "rent a crowd" who left directly after voting voice are is still heard.

 

In hind sight - the vote should have either been done for all who were partially present at the meeting (I did suggest that in the meeting)or only for those who attended the full meeting. But that would have been fair!

[(Deon)]

Where can I find the results? Not seeing anything on the website and less on twitter..

 

 

The irony of the last tweet..

[Shebeen]

so. what happened? nothing on the site (as far as i can see).