The Fake Cycling Goods Thread

[Matt]

It's apparent that there's value in having a broader discussion around counterfeit goods in the cycling market.
 
What makes a counterfeit, how to spot and report counterfeits, what are the South African laws applicable and what is Bike Hub's zero-tolerance Policy on fakes?
 
To kick off here is a refresher on our zero-tolerance policy:
 

Bottom line: If it's a fake it's not welcome on Bike Hub Classifieds.

Anyone posting a fake item whether this is disclosed or not will have their account permanently suspended.

What is regarded as a fake?

A fake or counterfeit product is any product which illegally bears a brand name / registered trademark. In other words, if the product bears a registered trademark and was not produced by- or on behalf of the original manufacturer it is counterfeit.

In cycling terms, common fakes can include but are not limited to bicycle frames, wheels, components, clothing, eyewear.

What about replicas?

Please note the distinction between a "fake" and a "replica" product:

- A true replica is a licensed, legal product and most often produced by the same manufacturer or a licenced manufacturer. Typically you'll find team edition bikes and team clothing is referred to as a "replica".

- A fake is an unlicensed copy and is ILLEGAL

The term "replica" is often incorrectly used to describe clothing which is actually counterfeit. Price is usually a good indicator. If it's well below standard retail prices of the real thing it's likely a fake.

What about blank/custom branded carbon frames, wheels and components?

There are many unbranded and custom branded products available, many of which are perfectly legal so-called "open mold" frames. As a broad guideline, if it does not illegally bear a registered trademark or mimic a particular frame design it is unlikely to be regarded as a fake. I.e. If it is trying to be something it is not then your alarm bells should go-ff.

We've got some pretty eagle-eyed members who spot fakes a mile off and usually the price is a dead give away. 

If you spot or suspect a fake please hit the report button so that we can investigate and take action if need be.

If you have any questions comments or suggestions on the issue please feel free to get in touch with me: matt at bikehub.co.za

MUST READ: The "Faking It" series of articles on BikeBiz.com by Carlton Reid offers some excellent insight into the world of fake bikes and busts some of the myths we often see on discussion forums, including here on Bike Hub.
 
Two articles particularly relevant to many of the conversations here on Bike Hub are:

• When a fake isn't - open molds vs. the knock-offs
• When is a Pinarello not a Pinarello? When it is a Chinarello

See more in the Faking It series here.
 
South African Law
Here is a link to the full Counterfeit Goods Act for some deeper reading on the legal implications of counterfeiting and trading in counterfeits in South Africa.

[fanievb]

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/130052-fake-counterfeit-bikes-components-news-and-how-to-spot-them/page-1

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/133992-are-these-real-or-fake/

[Meezo]

So as I said...

[Chingy182]

So basically any cycling kit bought on wish.com?

 

I've seen some guys sell the glasses that look like the Oakley Jawbreakers on other cycling groups that you can buy on wish

[Meezo]

So as I said...

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/175517-scammer-peter-lambert/?p=3309737

 

 

my guess

 

lotsa behind the scene talks between admin, peets and the op.

 

this baby will get locked down, and we'll never know what's what

[Vetplant]

Just want to reply to Eddy, who posted this in reply to my post in the thread which was locked down:

 

"Of all the rubbish spoken on the Internet, this must rate up there with the best. There are literally thousands of factories in China that make Carbon products, only a very, very select few will ever be selected to partner with high-end global brands and there is NO way that these businesses will threaten their contracts by doing "production overruns" and selling the product out the back door. Think about it just for one minute. Specialized spend millions tracking and closing down sellers of counterfeit product. Do you really think that if the guys making their frames are competing with them that they would not IMMEDIATELY take steps to halt it, including removing their manufacturing from their factory? But what do I know, I have only been doing business out of China for 14 years and am currently involved in a business that brings in R500m of product from China."

 

I don't work in the cycling industry, so my comment might not be what happens to every supplier based in the east who supply bicycle components.

 

BUT! I did work for one of the big Gate Motor companies, and it was an issue for them. 

 

It might not be an issue for Specialized specifically, but you cannot tell me that it doesn't happen at all in the cycling industry? 

 

On a side note. Why not be a good citizen and convert some of those Chinese imports of yours to localized factories, thus help with the unemployment number? 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Rookie85

[shaper]

Can tell you one thing.... as bike prices still continue to rise astronomically.... expect to see a lot more "branded" stuff on sale!!

[Shebeen]

 

 

On a side note. Why not be a good citizen and convert some of those Chinese imports of yours to localized factories, thus help with the unemployment number? 

ha ha, you honestly ask that question during labour strike season with a straight face?!

[Vetplant]

ha ha, you honestly ask that question during labour strike season with a straight face?!

Haha, you honestly think we can continue to import everything and increase the gap between those living in Midstream Estates and those living in Soshanguve without having some sort of revolt?

 

If they have nothing, they will have nothing to lose, thus likelihood of landgrabs et al will increase.

 

We can't keep doing what we have been doing and expect improvement, we need a drastically different approach. I am open to any suggestions...?

 

Some success stories:

Versus Socks

Extreme Lights

Calculus bikes

 

I can go on, but someone trying to prove the opposite will cite names that have gone bust.

[T-Bob]

Oh... I was expecting  thread where I could get some fake goods.

[GrahamS2]

On a side note. Why not be a good citizen and convert some of those Chinese imports of yours to localized factories, thus help with the unemployment number? 

This is a comment I often hear from people that don't have to deal with unions. 

[Vetplant]

This is a comment I often hear from people that don't have to deal with unions.

Fair comment.

 

Now, what do we do differently?

 

Unions have their place, but they cannot be allowed to run amok.

 

So as an employer, join a union, they exist for employers too you know.

 

Lets rather have discussions about how we CAN make things work despite all the challenges.

[Shebeen]

Haha, you honestly think we can continue to import everything and increase the gap between those living in Midstream Estates and those living in Soshanguve without having some sort of revolt?

 

If they have nothing, they will have nothing to lose, thus likelihood of landgrabs et al will increase.

 

We can't keep doing what we have been doing and expect improvement, we need a drastically different approach. I am open to any suggestions...?

 

Some success stories:

Versus Socks machines come from the east, just assembled here - and socks at R100+ per pair is a fad

Extreme Lightsyou're joking, right - you do know where their lights come from...

Calculus bikesi speak under correction, but i think their potential success story is still to be written

 

I can go on, but someone trying to prove the opposite will cite names that have gone bust.

at the end of the day it's all about the benjamins. why pay more for something?

[Vetplant]

at the end of the day it's all about the benjamins. why pay more for something?

Great nitpicking.

 

So you have no solutions or success stories to share?

 

So we are doomed to just mine our natural resources, sell it off to China and buy back the finished goods from them?

 

I am not saying we can't use components from international suppliers where it makes sense, but we need to do some more value-add locally than we are currently.

 

FYI:I am on leave for two weeks guys, I can literally do this the whole day... (and I hate the word "literally"). People who purely import stuff and sell it at a profit is really one of my main peeves. We can do better than that.

 

Come with some positive contributions please.

 

Then again, even though this thread gave birth to my train of thought, it probably isn't the best place to be positive about local industry. I'll excuse myself from this thread and go find the appropriate "let's support local" thread and will leave you guys to discussing fakes.

 

Cheers, Ciao, totsiens.

[Dirkitech]

I'll be following this thread religiously. I think there is and will be more knowledge to gain.

Education ftw

[pista]

Fakes and copies are all over the place.

 

 

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/sites/default/files/styles/flexslider_full/public/images/article/gallery/IMG_2983.jpg?itok=CfJXBc0d

 

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/sites/default/files/styles/flexslider_full/public/images/article/gallery/IMG_2982.jpg?itok=IUyBQ5tT