Headshot Posted March 14, 2019 Share The recent battle of the MAMILS vs the Baggy Boep Brigade on another thread made me start thinking about fitness and what I could be doing better. I started focusing on gravity riding partly because I enjoy the speed and the fun factor is huge. Another consideration was the limited time I have to train. Go out have a blast and race down the hill as fast as possible was the logic. I have always felt there was something missing however. While I can push my heartrate up high on the sprints, I am often completely blown by the time I am half way down a stage or get to a flat pedal section. I have just ridden the CTCT and while my training for that was pretty poor it did include about 300km of road riding in the three weeks leading up to it plus another 109 for the race itself. This is far more km than I normally ride in a month. I took my big bike out for a trundle on Tuesday after the roadie tour. Initially my legs felt tired but they warmed up adfter about 5km. What I did notice was how relaxed my breathing was as I climbed. Effort on the steep climbs felt far lower and I arrived at the high point feeling quite fresh. The down was about 1.5 km and the last 300m is flatish and a hard pedal. This time I was able to maintain my effort right to the end and knocked about 7 seconds off my previous fastst time thanks I think to being able to pedal more on the flatter sections especially the last 100m or so. I was quite amazed at how much fitter ( younger :-) ) I felt... This experience has made me realize how much long distance riding can do ffor your fitness on shorter high energy rides, like enduro races. I used to train far more for teh CTCT and carried that fitness over to my mtb riding but that was years ago and I havent felt teh benefits like I did on Tuesday for a very long time. My usual training hasn't done the endurance side of my performance much good, so some longer road and even flatter longer MTB rides need to be included. Now to find the time.. Anyone else have any insights? Captain Fastbastard Mayhem, nonky, Eddy Gordo and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane_Bosch Posted March 14, 2019 Share I haven't found much carry over from the road to the MTB myself. But to be fair my road rides are FAR too leisurely and my biggest problem is my phens. If Supercross stars like Ryan Dungey use road riding in their training programs there has to be some benefit. I've recently incorporated spinning classes (don't laugh) into my #training and I'm hoping the intervals and the intensity of the classes will help me get faster on the road and also to #schredthegnar. I've also started on weights and other bits & bobs but I always do that about 4 months out to get strong for France. * Disclaimer. I am NOT fit. Not even close. Not for DH. Not for Enduro and certainly not for Road. In fact i feel guilty typing in the word. Edited March 14, 2019 by Duane_Bosch BigDL, Captain Fastbastard Mayhem, Hairy and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn Posted March 14, 2019 Share sounds like your CTCT prep and participation developed a bit of a base which you took advantage of on that Tuesday. Reminds me of the adage that the best kind of training is racing. (or something to that effect. forgive if I've massacred the phrase). you will need to sustain this base, and perhaps build upon it in prep for your next gravity event. "sweet spot" training can help in both regards, as well as intervals that focus on > FTP efforts. Explosive power requirements are higher. What DB mentioned is also of importance, especially to gravity focussed MTBers, that is positively avoided by most roadies: top to bottom strength training. Gravity riders use more of the body to maneuver the bike, not to mention resist body weight through the bars during the descents. Therefore, upper body and lower body strength and mobility requirements are higher. But if you want to recover quicker after all out efforts as would be the case after each special stage in an enduro, your base needs to be solid. It's the only way to be able to give each stage your best. Edited March 14, 2019 by Capricorn Headshot and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane_Bosch Posted March 14, 2019 Share @ Tim & Cap. Do you guys run Heart Rate monitors? I'm not nerdy about my riding but if one is to get serious about training a HRM is vital IMO. Without one you're floundering around in the dark. The other day i was "suffering" on Victoria. Looked at the HRM and my heart rate was 110. Dropped a few cogs and started really working. My current "training" is 3 spinning classes a week together with a longish road ride on the weekend. Going hard on the road ride is difficult coz it's with my fiance and that's also "us" time so I'm careful to not turn it into work for her. the goal is 120km a week and 6000km for the year. I'd like to get more scientific about this stuff but I'm a weekend warrior at best. * Disclaimer. I am NOT fit. Not even close. Not for DH. Not for Enduro and certainly not for Road. In fact i feel guilty typing in the word. Edited March 14, 2019 by Duane_Bosch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted March 14, 2019 Share sounds like you have just signed yourself up to become a cycling commuter to work and back! The recent battle of the MAMILS vs the Baggy Boep Brigade on another thread made me start thinking about fitness and what I could be doing better. I started focusing on gravity riding partly because I enjoy the speed and the fun factor is huge. Another consideration was the limited time I have to train. Go out have a blast and race down the hill as fast as possible was the logic. I have always felt there was something missing however. While I can push my heartrate up high on the sprints, I am often completely blown by the time I am half way down a stage or get to a flat pedal section. I have just ridden the CTCT and while my training for that was pretty poor it did include about 300km of road riding in the three weeks leading up to it plus another 109 for the race itself. This is far more km than I normally ride in a month. I took my big bike out for a trundle on Tuesday after the roadie tour. Initially my legs felt tired but they warmed up adfter about 5km. What I did notice was how relaxed my breathing was as I climbed. Effort on the steep climbs felt far lower and I arrived at the high point feeling quite fresh. The down was about 1.5 km and the last 300m is flatish and a hard pedal. This time I was able to maintain my effort right to the end and knocked about 7 seconds off my previous fastst time thanks I think to being able to pedal more on the flatter sections especially the last 100m or so. I was quite amazed at how much fitter ( younger :-) ) I felt... This experience has made me realize how much long distance riding can do ffor your fitness on shorter high energy rides, like enduro races. I used to train far more for teh CTCT and carried that fitness over to my mtb riding but that was years ago and I havent felt teh benefits like I did on Tuesday for a very long time. My usual training hasn't done the endurance side of my performance much good, so some longer road and even flatter longer MTB rides need to be included. Now to find the time.. Anyone else have any insights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn Posted March 14, 2019 Share @ Tim & Cap. Do you guys run Heart Rate monitors? I'm not nerdy about my riding but if one is to get serious about training a HRM is vital IMO. Without one you're floundering around in the dark. The other day i was "suffering" on Victoria. Looked at the HRM and my heart rate was 110. Dropped a few cogs and started really working. My current "training" is 3 spinning classes a week together with a longish road ride on the weekend. Going hard on the road ride is difficult coz it's with my fiance and that's also "us" time so I'm careful to not turn it into work for her. the goal is 120km a week and 6000km for the year. I'd like to get more scientific about this stuff but I'm a weekend warrior at best. I used use HR as a training aid and it did suffice I guess. But after switching to power, I realized the heart-felt lies I was training against I highly advise finding your FTP and train programs based on that. It's horribly effective in making you suffer near death experiences, but it's equally effective in telling you the truth about your current cycling fitness and progress. Because of it, and due to a lack of time to hit long rides (which is lower intensity but higher volume, which can result in the same gain in fitness), I've focused on intervals to help develop the base and using the same method to build upon said base. that is supplemented by weight training and mobility exercises. Edited March 14, 2019 by Capricorn BigDL, Duane_Bosch and mazambaan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted March 14, 2019 Share without trying to be funny here, I think that the best cross training you can do is some form of a martial arts contact sport such as MMA, kickboxing, karate .... your whole body get's conditioned, your balance is critical and you perfect your "tuck and roll" (Looking at you Headshot!) besides the physical aspect, they also focus on stretching / flexibility ... again a good point to work on if you can. the above is based on personal experience, but I am certainly not a DH or #EnduroRacingBro. stefmeister and Headshot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn Posted March 14, 2019 Share DB: get a smart Indoor tormentor with power. One of the best cycling investments you'll ever make. It requires such singular focus to get through the heavy hard work, that you'll develop a very good sense of power output while out riding even if you don't have a power meter, and can thus effectively manage your race output. Structured programs aplenty on the web, but consider signing up to sufferfest, trainingpeaks or trainingroad etc. takes a lot of thinking out of the planning, leaving you with only the DIY suffering. but if that seems like much structure, best to hammer out low intensity, high volume riding (LSD) and mix it up with hill repeats for your intervals. Rinse repeat till you are naar or hungry BigDL, Captain Fastbastard Mayhem, Headshot and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headshot Posted March 14, 2019 Share @ Tim & Cap. Do you guys run Heart Rate monitors? I'm not nerdy about my riding but if one is to get serious about training a HRM is vital IMO. Without one you're floundering around in the dark. The other day i was "suffering" on Victoria. Looked at the HRM and my heart rate was 110. Dropped a few cogs and started really working. My current "training" is 3 spinning classes a week together with a longish road ride on the weekend. Going hard on the road ride is difficult coz it's with my fiance and that's also "us" time so I'm careful to not turn it into work for her. the goal is 120km a week and 6000km for the year. I'd like to get more scientific about this stuff but I'm a weekend warrior at best. * Disclaimer. I am NOT fit. Not even close. Not for DH. Not for Enduro and certainly not for Road. In fact i feel guilty typing in the word.I have a HRM GPS but have stopped using HRM as I hate the strap and extra faffing required. I also find mornitoring HR I was worrying more about numbers than just riding my bike. So far I'm totally happy without it. I think the great thing about road is the ability to pick a speed and pedal it without too many other factors intruding like sudden climbs. The rides I did prior to the CTC were between 90km and 113km and I suffered quite a bit, my logic being that I was cramming the training in and would rest in the week before the race. My aim is to try and include some longish road rides every month to try and preserve and build fitness while riding the shorter MTB rides in between. BigDL and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBeer Posted March 14, 2019 Share This guys training program is pretty good for the strength and flexibility side of things. I started doing it but then due to my inherent laziness I stopped. https://www.bikejames.com/ Headshot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headshot Posted March 14, 2019 Share without trying to be funny here, I think that the best cross training you can do is some form of a martial arts contact sport such as MMA, kickboxing, karate .... your whole body get's conditioned, your balance is critical and you perfect your "tuck and roll" (Looking at you Headshot!) besides the physical aspect, they also focus on stretching / flexibility ... again a good point to work on if you can. the above is based on personal experience, but I am certainly not a DH or #EnduroRacingBro.That tuck and roll practice is great but... as I have found when you crash at speed, it doesnt really work. You become a victim of gravity. Then it becomes more about hoping you hit the ground with as many parts of your body as possible to minimize the risk of one part taking the full impact.My collarbone break left me with barely a scratch but a very broken bone. T-Bob and Hairy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headshot Posted March 14, 2019 Share DB: get a smart Indoor tormentor with power. One of the best cycling investments you'll ever make. It requires such singular focus to get through the heavy hard work, that you'll develop a very good sense of power output while out riding even if you don't have a power meter, and can thus effectively manage your race output. Structured programs aplenty on the web, but consider signing up to sufferfest, trainingpeaks or trainingroad etc. takes a lot of thinking out of the planning, leaving you with only the DIY suffering. but if that seems like much structure, best to hammer out low intensity, high volume riding (LSD) and mix it up with hill repeats for your intervals. Rinse repeat till you are naar or hungry The last bit is how I used to do road training. The intervals were the cherry on the top to be able to stay with D group back in the day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter1 Posted March 14, 2019 Share I don’t fall into any of the two disciplines you mentioned however when I my at home kettle bell routine often I can feel that I am able to handle the bike better for longer. So my unimformed personal experiance would lead me to believe that working out with weights and getting your fitness up would help a lot. I see the slope style guys also spend quite a lot of time in the gym. Duane_Bosch, Headshot and Capricorn 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bob Posted March 14, 2019 Share There were some great podcasts I'll try to find but core is one of the biggest thing in terms of making you able to do more, go longer and deal with injury issues. Also watching the Pink bike Privateer series showed what extra strength work can do and how integral it is. I think there is a bit of series on Downtimepodcast from the guy at Fit4Racing which are pretty interesting. I was planning to sign up to a online Enduro fitness program that was a UK thing but seemed to make a lot of sense but again I've gone and lost the link. Doh. Capricorn, Headshot and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted March 14, 2019 Share There were some great podcasts I'll try to find but core is one of the biggest thing in terms of making you able to do more, go longer and deal with injury issues. Also watching the Pink bike Privateer series showed what extra strength work can do and how integral it is. I think there is a bit of series on Downtimepodcast from the guy at Fit4Racing which are pretty interesting. I was planning to sign up to a online Enduro fitness program that was a UK thing but seemed to make a lot of sense but again I've gone and lost the link. Doh. Was it this? https://enduromtbtraining.com/ T-Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Gordo Posted March 14, 2019 Share Right, so when is the group bootcamp sessions? I am available mon to wed aft work. T-Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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